Judy Kaye
In The Phantom of the Opera, Judy Kaye scored a 1988 Tony Award for her haute-persona and money note delivering performance as the diva Carlotta. These days she's giving Broadway the flip side. Portraying the real life early 20th Century New York socialite Florence Foster Jenkins in Stephen Temperley's Souvenir at the Lyceum Theatre, Kaye is putting forth a tour de force of delusion, charm and exceptionally executed sour singing. And it's all on purpose. As a critic once wrote of Jenkins—who, from 1912 to her death in 1944, performed annual operatic recitals in Gotham at the Ritz-Carlton and eventually Carnegie Hall—"She had enthusiasm, and enough money to finance her operatic career. What she didn't have was talent." In short, Jenkins was a New York original who was cherished by her community. Of course, the same could be said of the actress bringing her back to life in Souvenir, Judy Kaye. A Broadway veteran of Ragtime, Mamma Mia! and On the 20th Century, Kaye has a musical theater resume that reads like a text book in Leading Lady. Since graduating from UCLA in the late '70s, regionally, Kaye has performed everything from Mary Madgalene to Mama Rose. Her work in the two-actor Souvenir which currently co-stars the excellent Donald Corren as Jenkins's accompanist began last season in a limited run at the York Theatre Company. We caught up with Kaye to see just how the hell a consummate pro like herself manages to land the rash of tone-deaf notes and heartfelt pathos that poured from Florence Foster Jenkins.
How did you come to Souvenir?
I got a call from my agent to go on an audition, that's how I found out about it. In the recesses of my mind I seem to remember hearing that somebody, years ago, was working on a piece about her. And it might have even been this project, cause [Souvenir] has been in the works for literally twenty-five years. It was first written as a one-woman show, and that didn't work. Then Stephen Temperley [the author] also tried it as a play with many characters, and he didn't care for that. So it sat for a while until just a few years ago when he had the idea to write it from [Jenkin's accompanist] Cosme McMoon's point of view. Then I got a call, and thought, "Oh my God... there it is!" And I read for them and just prayed they'd give me a shot.
Yes, it is a play. And nobody let's me do plays. [Laughs.] Sadly, in this country, when you are a musical theater performer—not performer, actor!—they often don't think of you that way. They just say, "Oh no, she sings." As if that isn't creating a character and fleshing out a narrative. We [in the US] are woefully behind in that sort of thing. I think in England they have a better handle on that because people traverse; they go back and forth between the various forms all the time—from television to films to radio, from comedy to drama. Nobody is pigeon-holed over there the way they are here. So yes, of course I've been looking. And I've had opportunities here and there to do some wonderful things. Away from the city, mostly. That isn't to say that I don't love the Broadway musical experience. But Souvenir really embodies everything for me. This is the best role I have ever, ever had.
Clearly, your musical theater career is extensive, but you've also performed in opera. Was there a time when you made the choice to pursue one over the other?
There was, actually. I sort of backed into opera, kind of unknowingly. When I'd come out of high school I auditioned for the opera workshop at UCLA. I still don't know why I did that except that it was an opportunity to get up and sing. And they saw something in me, even though they said my performance was fairly far-off-the-mark and my German sucked. But they gave me an opportunity. And while I was there I discovered there was a UCLA musical comedy workshop, which was part of the opera workshop, and so I participated in that on Saturday mornings as well. And slowly that sort of took over. At the time I had a wonderful coach in the opera workshop, who said to me one day [in thick Italian accent], "Judy, you are sad. You are not happy, are you?" And I said, "No." And he said, "You shouldn't be doing this. Go should do what makes you happy." And so I left.
As Florence Foster Jenkins was a real person, what sort of research did you do for Souvenir?
Well, I had heard her records when I was in high school. So I knew of her through the years. I mean, in the music world, she's a cult figure. Also, she was a great devoted patron of, especially, the operatic world. So I knew that about her. But all I had [for Souvenir] was newspaper clippings. That's all that exists!
There are no books about her?
Nobody has ever written a book, which I think is fascinating—that nobody ever tried to tell the true story. But the thing about the newspaper clippings, as Stephen Temperley has said, is that they read like after dinner talk. You don't know what of that was really true, because in those days I'm sure they were trying to keep her from quitting. So they tread very lightly in their reviews of her.
Any interviews?
I don't know of any interviews of her, no. Just commentary and society articles and the obituaries.
So she's still somewhat of an enigma?
Yes. And that is why the play is "a fantasia on the life of Florence Foster Jenkins," cause we don't really know! What we do know—and it's the one thing that really stood out as the key for me: that in everything I read, they said she was happy in her work. That she loved what she did. She got such pleasure from it, such joy—and that that translated across the footlights.
With her few recordings, did you study them?
I wouldn't say I studied them. I listened a little bit and then I put them aside.
Yes, actually. And I was hoping to. When I played [Souvenir] at the York people sort of showed up. Marge Champion had been to [Jenkins's 1944] Carnegie Hall concert and she described it to me. And then out of the blue a lady showed up one night who had been a seventeen-year old ballerina at the Metropolitan Opera. And she came now—you know, as an old lady—with clippings and memorabilia. Florence had taken [this woman] under her wing for a time. A beautiful woman, she spoke so lovingly of Florence—that this woman had been gracious to her. And she loved the show. She said we really did capture the essence of this person.
I'll bet that was wonderful to hear.
Well, yeah! Cause you're really flying blind in a situation like this. Which is good in a way, because it gives you an opportunity to go with the story as it is written, with the intentions that are there. We're not locked in, you know?
How much has the show changed since you did it last year at the York?
It's been refined, I'd say. Things have been trimmed, other things have been re-written. Certainly I've got ten times as many costumes as I had. [Laughs.]
Well, you've got some fabulous frocks. How many are there exactly?
You know, I've been trying to count! [Laughs.] I think I've got four in the first act, then like ten in the second.
That's outrageous!
Isn't it something?
Must be a whole other show backstage?
It is, it is! As it always is. You know, I did a show [on Broadway in 1981] called Moony Shapiro and I had thirty-five changes. And that was the fewest in the whole cast!
Wow. Say, aren't some of the costumes in Souvenir nearly exact historical replicas of what Jenkin's really wore at Carnegie Hall?
They're pretty close. But some of them are just... dreaming.
I was wondering how you and Florence were alike. For instance, she says she has perfect pitch. Do you?
No. I'm of the relative variety. But it's very good relative pitch. People who have perfect pitch, actually, get ill by hearing somebody singing off-key. It's physically painful for them. [Laughs.] I'm sort of glad I don't have that.
Florence also says she doesn't have stage fright. Do you?
We professionals who do this for a living are constantly questioning ourselves. You know, we're always thinking 'It's never good enough!' Or at various times we think we are frauds—"I'm really getting away with murder! I really have no talent!" Da-da, da-da, da-da. But the amateur never doubts.
OK, the singing off-key. Is it difficult for you to hear the note played on the piano and then purposefully sing it off-key?
It's not difficult, no. It's great fun, actually. The first time I did it it was somewhat technical. Now it's just Florence!
And, I must say, the sound in Souvenir at the Lyceum is so alert, so refreshing live.
Well, it sounds live cause it is live. We're not miked in any way. They wired it for sound in case we needed it, but of course we don't. It's the perfect theater for this show. I could whisper on that stage, you'll hear it—all the way up.
Well, she muddies the time signatures to some degree. It is said in the newspapers reviews that she would sort of play fast and loose with the arias. As a whole, she would put her stamp on them, rhythmically and melodically, and take certain liberties. Like if she decided not to sing that note that day, she just wouldn't.
You have one of those stellar Broadway records for performing long runs. In fact, your first professional gig was playing Lucy in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown in LA—for two years, yes?
Yup. We were at the Ivar Theatre for two years.
And you played on Broadway in Phantom for a year. Ever consider returning?
I don't think they'd have me. [Laughs.] I don't think I have that E natural anymore, eight times a week. I don't know that I want to have that E natural eight times a week!
In the musical theater, are there any roles that you haven't performed yet that you'd like to? Or perhaps some you'd like to re-visit?
Oh, billions of them! There are the ones that I thought I would do that I never did, and now I won't because I'm too damn old. But sure, I could do the Mames and the Hello, Dollys again. I could do Sweeney Todd again in a heartbeat. I love that thing. I could certainly do Follies again. And Mama Rose, a great piece of writing.
You did Gypsy in Seattle, right? Just the one run?
Yeah, but I'd better not have just done it just the one time. I better do it again somewhere. [Laughs.] If somebody'll let me! Talk about living like a nun. That [role] is a hard one. That is truly the Lear of musical theatre.
Finally, Florence Foster Jenkins it's such an infamous New York eccentric. Do you feel any responsibility or pride in bringing her back to city?
Well, that's a wonderful thought. And yes. Yes, I do feel that. I think she would be so happy to see us in that beautiful theater, telling her story, living her story eight times a week. I think she would be very pleased. It was almost like we couldn't dare hope to bring the show into a Broadway theater. And—here we are!
See Judy Kaye in Souvenir at the Lyceum Theatre, 149 West 45th Street. Click for tickets and more information.
